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02541
02542
02543
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02542
32.0 土
𠂢
SC=10, FS=3 TS=13

(v5.0)


(v1.0)

UK-20352
SC=10, TS=13, IDS=⿰坐𠂢, glyph updated, 2023-06.
R=32.0 (土), SC=9, 2023-05.
Attributes:



Review Comments

Type
Description
Submitter
Glyph Design & Normalization
GLYPH_DESIGN
WS2021 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
The following page (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Pekinese_Rhymes_(G._Vitale,_1896).djvu/87) says that the pronunciation is ⟨p'ai3⟩, raising the possibility that 瓜 is a corruption of 𠂢.
L F CHENG
Individual
2021-06-12 23:03:30 UTC
Evidence
EVIDENCE
WS2021 v4.0
[ Resolved ]
The following two pages show the explanation of this song. And the author shows the pronunciation is pʼai³ (pǎi?). 𠂢 will be the better phonetic element than 瓜. The author also showed Thomas Francis Wade (威妥瑪) used this character.



▲ 周建设: 《明、清、民国时期珍稀老北京话历史文献整理与研究 北京歌谣》, 北京: 首都师范大学出版社, 2015.11, ISBN 978-7-5656-2645-6, pp. 85-86 (61-62)

In p. 59 of the same book, the glyph for 脈 is shown. The pronunciation muo⁴ (mò) is the 文读音 of 脈 in this verb-object phrase. The glyph for the right part of 脈 is the same as the one of the submitted character.


▲ 周建设: 《明、清、民国时期珍稀老北京话历史文献整理与研究 北京歌谣》, 北京: 首都师范大学出版社, 2015.11, ISBN 978-7-5656-2645-6, p. 83 (59)

Therefore, it is OK to accept the normalization as ⿰坐𠂢.
Eiso CHAN
Individual
2023-01-31 08:43:10 UTC
Attributes
ATTRIBUTES_RADICAL
WS2021 v4.0
[ Resolved ]
Change Radical to 32.0 (土), SC=10, FS=3

Radical follows 坐.
Eiso CHAN
Individual
2023-01-31 08:45:02 UTC
Glyph Design & Normalization
GLYPH_DESIGN
WS2021 v4.0
[ Resolved ]
Based on evidence shown in #10613, 𠂢 is written like 瓜 in the source, so the glyph should be normalized to ⿰坐𠂢, and IDS changed to ⿰坐𠂢.
Andrew WEST
UK
2023-01-31 13:31:18 UTC
Other
COMMENT
WS2021 v4.0
[ Resolved ]
My Beijing friend has help me confirm this word. This word is 牛屎/粪pǎnr/pǎir, and they often write as 牛屎盘儿 or 牛粪盘儿. Based on 《现代汉语词典》, the retroflex suffixation forms (儿化) of the finals ɑ, ɑi, ɑn are the same. 盘 must be not the proper form of this one and a half syllables (一个半音节), just a temporary replaced form. Therefore, it is valuable to encode this character.


▲ 北董: 《卓越的力量》//北董: 《飞马烽火桥》, 桂林: 广西师范大学出版社, 2020.1, ISBN 978-7-5598-2340-3, p. 52


▲ 金玉廷: 《为革命而歌》//金玉廷: 《我是人民宣传员》, 沈阳: 春风文艺出版社, 1965.10, 统一书号: T10158·467, p. 47


▲ 胡沙: 《评剧简史》, 北京: 中国戏剧出版社, 1982.9, 书号: 8069·313, p. 51

On the other hand, 蜀葵 (Alcea rosea Linnaeus) is called as 牛屎~儿花 in somewhere.

Note: All the 儿 mentioned here should be the small form for retroflex suffixation.
Eiso CHAN
Individual
2023-01-31 13:35:14 UTC

Meeting Minutes

DateDescription

Attribute Changes

VersionDescription
5.0
For 02542, change Radical to 32.0 (土)
5.0
For 02542, change Stroke Count to 9
5.0
For 02542, add Discussion Record "R=32.0 (土), SC=9, 2023-05."
5.0
For 02542, change IDS to ⿰坐𠂢
5.0
For 02542, change Stroke Count to 10
5.0
For 02542, add Discussion Record "SC=10, TS=13, IDS=⿰坐𠂢, glyph updated, 2023-06."
5.0
For 02542, change Total Stroke Count to 13

Glyph Changes

Source ReferenceGlyph
UK-20352
1.0
🢂
5.0

Raw Info
groupUK
a) Source referenceUK-20352
b) PUA Code of TTFF004
c) KangXi Radical Code (Primary)97.0
d) Stroke Count (Primary)7
e) First Stroke (Primary)3
f) Secondary KX Radical CodeN/A
f) a. Secondary Stroke CountN/A
f) b. Secondary First StrokeN/A
g) Total Stroke Count12
i) IDS⿰坐瓜
j) Similar/ Variants N/A
k1) References to evidence documentsVitale, Guido: “Pekinese Rhymes” (Peking: Pei-T'ang Press, 1896) p. 60
k2) Images FilenamesUK-20352-001.jpg
l) Other InformationAlso SJ/T 11239—2001 37-78
m1) Previous IRG WSN/A
m2) Sequence No.N/A