Character Info
04563
 UK-20698 |
Kept in Main Set, pending further discussion of the encoding model for Taoist characters, IRG 57.
Attributes:
Meeting Minutes
| Date | Description |
|---|---|
| IRG #57 2021-09-17 (Fri) 11:00 am +0800 Recorded by Henry CHAN | Kept pending further discussion of the encoding model for Taoist characters (automatically processed by IRG ORT Manager) |
| IRG #57 2021-09-17 (Fri) 11:01 am +0800 Recorded by Henry CHAN | Kept in Main Set, pending further discussion of the encoding model for Taoist characters (automatically processed by IRG ORT Manager) |
Attribute Changes
| Version | Description |
|---|---|
| 2.0 | For 04563, add Discussion Record "Kept in Main Set, pending further discussion of the encoding model for Taoist characters, IRG 57." |
Glyph Changes
| Source Reference | Glyph |
|---|---|
| UK-20698 | 1.0 |
Raw Info
| group | UK |
| a) Source reference | UK-20698 |
| b) PUA Code of TTF | E0E0 |
| c) KangXi Radical Code (Primary) | 194.0 |
| d) Stroke Count (Primary) | 9 |
| e) First Stroke (Primary) | 2 |
| f) Secondary KX Radical Code | N/A |
| f) a. Secondary Stroke Count | N/A |
| f) b. Secondary First Stroke | N/A |
| g) Total Stroke Count | 19 |
| i) IDS | ⿺鬼咢 |
| j) Similar/ Variants | N/A |
| k1) References to evidence documents | 《梵音斗科》（清雍正初刊本）卷上 folio 57 |
| k2) Images Filenames | UK-20698-001.jpg |
| l) Other Information | N/A |
| m1) Previous IRG WS | N/A |
| m2) Sequence No. | N/A |
Review Comments
IRG PnP 2.1.1.c says: characters must be used in script as characters in text. Logos and images used separately from running text are not acceptable.
https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20700
https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20701
https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20702
https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20703
等等.
Here are my questions to UK:
1. What does UK take 符箓? Is 符箓 a character?
2. If a character is used only as a part of 符箓, does UK think it is a normal CJKUI?
3. Why this comment is not under these characters?
a) https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20710
In the evidence, it says 若因治病，上加"XXXX", it is very obvious saying how to write/draw a 符箓. It's not a running text.
What's more, the structure on the right bottom is not the claimed ⿰三三 but a 坤卦(☷, U+2637).
b) https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20796
You must be kidding me that this is running text.
c) https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20752
This actually an example of 符箓, the one on the left contains a weired character on the bottom and four character seems normal. If this can be running text, then why won't the one on the bottom encoded?
I'd like UK to answer my question direcly and clearly in a sensical way.
One more thing to clarify, I don't oppose to encode 符咒字, but I do oppose to encode them this way. The reasons are as follows:
1. It's not every 符咒字, even the ones used very frequently have an evidence that satisfys IRG PnP. It's meaningless that we encode them seperately and unprofessionally.
2. According to the comments in todays meeting, some experts still don't realize the complexity and the large quantity of 符咒字. We should discuss the ways of encoding them and unifying them thoroughly and change our PnP. It's better that we face the problems of 符咒字 and encode them as 符咒字 than pretend them as normal characters and make others belive this.
p1459
现代汉语词典 第7版，P402
The evidence UK provided is from a book named "梵音斗科". ⿺鬼咢 is only found in this book, which is written and published by Mr. Lou Jinyuan(娄近垣) in the Qing Dynasty.
Considering that:
• ⿺鬼咢 is seen only in a song for a special ceremony to communicate with a God. Meanwhile, the ceremony was recorded only in the book "梵音斗科". The book has not been reorganized and published again since its initial publication, and the ideographs have not been quoted by anyone.
• Mr. Lou Jinyuan(娄近垣) should be famous at least among the Daoists in the Qing Dynasty. But we don't know if he is still well-known nowadays. The submitter didn't provide any related illustrations.
• The submitter didn't explain the meanings and rationale of ⿺鬼咢 is. For self-published books, ideographs used in them can be created very freely.
So:
After analysis, we can find that there are one or two factors that argue for encoding, but two or three factors that argue against encoding. Since it is not required for use in government databases, I think it is reasonable to ask for further investigation.