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04093
173.0 雨
SC=14, FS=4, TS=22

UK-30471
IRGN2809WS2024v3.0Pending
Postponed for further investigation, IRG 63.
Attributes:



Review Comments

Type
Description
Submitter
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
It is a part of Daoist talisman but not an ideograph based on provided evidence. Used with clearly unencodable Daoist signs. This "ideograph" should be rejected by IRG.
Another version of 正统道藏·道法会元
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-09-05 09:05:29 UTC
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE (Response)
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
The evidence is very clear, and the context shows that the character is obviously an ideograph. This and the other six related characters complete the set started with UK-20710 ⿱雨⿺鬼☷ (Ext. J draft U+33281), so there is no reason not to encode.
Andrew WEST
UK
2024-10-11 10:44:30 UTC
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
Comment #4937 says "The evidence is very clear, and the context shows that the character is obviously an ideograph". This is truly unbelievable.
The context clearly states that they are parts of axe tailismans(斧符) and should be drawn in the blank side of the drawings of axes(空邊入卦號). I really don't understand why it is obviously an ideograph based on this kind of context.
The context clearly proves that UK-30471 and all other seven ones(including the one in Ext.J draft) are just signs systematically created by adding 雨 and 鬼 to 八卦☰☱☲☳☴☵☶☷. They are created for the tailismans used in special cermonies to ask Gods' help(到處萬神奉行). They are not used in texts and have no semantics.
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-10-18 05:47:28 UTC
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
The UK-20710, which has not formally be encoded, is used in the same way, i.e. being drawn in the drawings of axes. This was also clearly stated in the book 《梵音斗科》. It is just that the whole image of the related context was not provided by the UK in IRG WS2021.
[WS2021-04313]
Whole image:

Evidence the UK provided in IRG WS2021:
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-10-18 06:14:43 UTC
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE (Response)
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
It is perfectly reasonable to want to digitally represent a text which discusses how to use particular ideographs to draw talismans, and ideographs which are mentioned in such a text are perfectly valid candidates for encoding. We are not proposing to encode talismans, but are proposing to encode characters which are used in printed text. The fact that a text relates to talismans, or describes how characters should be drawn on an axe or a pair of boots, is completely irrelevant to whether the characters should be encoded or not.
Andrew WEST
UK
2024-10-18 09:53:04 UTC
Evidence
EVIDENCE
WS2024 v2.0
[ Unresolved ]
Following the decision of UK-20710, the symbols conbined with bagua should be removed from WS-2024.
https://hc.jsecs.org/irg/ws2021/app/?find=UK-20710
https://www.unicode.org/wg2/docs/n5289-ProposalToRemove2CharactersFromCJKExtensionJ.pdf
TAO Yang
China
2025-02-18 02:46:52 UTC

Meeting Minutes

DateDescription
IRG #63
2024-10-23 (Wed)
10:14 am +0900
Recorded by CHEN Zhuang
Postponed for further investigation

Attribute Changes

VersionDescription
2.0
For 04093, change Status to Postponed
2.0
For 04093, add Discussion Record "Postponed for further investigation, IRG 63."

Glyph Changes

Source ReferenceGlyph
UK-30471
1.0

Raw Info
Character ReferenceUK-30471
CodepointE79C
Radical173
Stroke Count14
First Stroke4
Total Stroke22
IDS⿱雨⿺鬼⿳一一⿰一一
VariantsN/A
PronunciationN/A
Normalization Ref.N/A
Total No. of Evidences1
NotesAlternate IDS: ⿱雨⿺鬼☴
2nd RadicalN/A
2nd Stroke CountN/A
2nd First StrokeN/A