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02193
02194
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02194
85.0 水
⿰氵⿱𮅕马
SC=18, FS=3, TS=21

GCW-00281
IRGN2809WS2024v3.0Pending
Postponed for further investigation of “目” vs “日” of middle component, IRG 63.
Similar To: Trad Variant 𤅲 (U+24172),Semantic Variant𤅠 (U+24160)涮 (U+6DAE)
U+24172U+24172
U+24160U+24160
U+6DAEU+6DAE
Attributes:

Review Comments

Type
Description
Submitter
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
The second evidence seems like ⿰氵⿱𫂁马, which is one horizontal stroke less than ⿰氵⿱𮅕马. Can you provide a clearer evidence?
HUANG Junliang
Individual
2024-08-24 17:29:44 UTC
#953
Attributes
ATTRIBUTES_IDS
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
If evidence 2 is indeed ⿰氵⿱𫂁马, suggest to change IDS and glyph to ⿰氵⿱𫂁马 so that it is the legit simplified variant of 𤅲 (U+24172), and then we can unify ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 to ⿰氵⿱𫂁马. Otherwise we will end up with the situation where 𤅲 is missing encoded simplified form and ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 is missing encoded traditional form, which may lead to two more encoded characters in the future.
HUANG Junliang
Individual
2024-08-24 17:32:00 UTC
#954
Evidence
UNCLEAR_EVIDENCE (Response)
WS2024 v1.0
[ Unresolved ]
We think the first evidence is enough for encoding ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 since the traditional form is encoded and ⿰氵⿱𫂁马 and ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 are obvious variants.
The evidence is clear.

Xieyang WANG
China
2024-08-31 03:45:24 UTC
#1769
Other
COMMENT_IGNORE
WS2024 v1.0
For ⿰氵⿱𫂁马, we'd like to submit it in the next IRG WS.
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-08-31 03:59:14 UTC
#1771
Evidence
NEW_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Resolved ]
《红楼梦》(人民文学出版社, 1982, 6th printing 1985) p. 714 gives ⿰氵⿱𫂁马 which is the correct simplified form of U+24172 𤅲 (⿰氵⿱𫂁馬). It seems that ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 is an error form that is only attested in a single edition (Evidence 1). Based on Evidence 2 and the new evidence from the 1982 edition shown here the IDS and glyph for GCW-00281 should be changed to ⿰氵⿱𫂁马.

Andrew WEST
UK
2024-08-31 13:58:44 UTC
#1773
Evidence
NEW_EVIDENCE
WS2024 v1.0
[ Unresolved ]
Though I don't understand why it has to be unclear or an error because ⿰氵⿱𫂁马 and ⿰氵⿱𮅕马 are obvious variants and it is very normal that variants replace each other in texts, I'd like to add a new evidence for the ideograph.
The evidence is from 2008年第3版，2012年月第39次印刷(3rd edition, 39th printing), page694. This proves that ⿰氵⿱𫂁馬 has been changed to ⿰氵⿱𮅕马.

Academically, 𮅕(算) is the phonetic component of this ideograph. So it is clear that 𮅕 is better than 𫂁.
《集韵》 from 异体字字典.
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-09-01 06:43:13 UTC
#1796
Other
OTHER
WS2024 v1.0
[ Unresolved ]
I suggest keeping this character in the M-set, and updating U+24172 to use 目 instead of 日. Kangxi Dictionary quotes from 《集韵》 and 《玉篇》 for this character, but the glyphs in those books use 目 instead:



The error in Kangxi seems to stem from 《字彙》 and 《正字通》.
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-10-23 00:17:35 UTC
#5657
Other
COMMENT
WS2024 v1.0
[ Unresolved ]
Should not be postponed.
Xieyang WANG
China
2024-10-25 12:18:05 UTC
#5682

Meeting Minutes

DateDescription
IRG #63
2024-10-23 (Wed)
9:08 am +0900
Recorded by CHEN Zhuang
Evidence accepted
IRG #63
2024-10-23 (Wed)
9:11 am +0900
Recorded by CHEN Zhuang
Postponed for further investigation, "目" vs “日” of middle component.

Attribute Changes

VersionDescription
2.0
For 02194, change Status to Postponed
2.0
For 02194, add Discussion Record "Postponed for further investigation of “目” vs “日” of middle component, IRG 63."

Glyph Changes

Source ReferenceGlyph
GCW-00281
1.0
Raw Info
Character ReferenceGCW-00281
CodepointE139
Radical85.18
Stroke Count18
First Stroke3
Total Stroke21
IDS⿰氵⿱𮅕马
VariantsTrad Variant 𤅲,Semantic Variant𤅠涮
Pronunciationshuan4
Total No. of Evidences3
NotesN/A
Secondary RadicalN/A
Secondary Stroke CountN/A
Secondary First StrokeN/A

Source Code released at https://github.com/irgonline/ws2024 (available to members of the IRG only). For access, please contact the ORG Manager.