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03560
142.0 虫
SC=8, FS=3 TS=14

GKJ-00436
IRGN2678WS2021v7.0Unified&Withdrawn
Withdrawn, unification to 𧍂 U+27342 to be discussed, new UCV rule to be discussed, IRG 62.

Exact Match: 𧍂 (U+27342)

U+27342U+27342
Attributes:



Review Comments

Type
Description
Submitter
Data for Unihan
UNIHAN_DATA
WS2021 v3.0
kFanqie 戶交 胡刀
Eiso CHAN
Individual
2022-08-03 04:33:44 UTC
Modified
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
U+27342
Unifiable to 𧍂 (U+27342)?

U+27342 comes from Kangxi, with the given text: 【備考】【申集】【虫字部】 【五音篇海】音肴。又音豪。 which indicates they are the same character.
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-20 02:52:09 UTC
Unification
UCV
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
For ⿱又有/肴:
⿱又有 (A03305-013) ~ 肴 (A03305)
⿰山⿱又有 (B00831-005) ~ 崤 (B00831)
⿰飠⿱又有 (B05734-001) ~ 餚 (B05734)

Since ⿰言⿱又有 (C13276-008) ~ 𧩭 (C13276-002), ⿱又有/肴 may be supported in lvl2.
Kushim JIANG
Individual
2024-03-20 03:37:50 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
U+27342
Suggest not to unify if no more cases can be found because both ⿰虫肴 and 𧍂 (U+27342) are kind of common as head characters in ancient books.
Examples for 𧍂 (U+27342)

改併五音類聚四聲篇海,成化丁亥重刊本

同文书局版《康熙字典》

新校經史海篇直音,明嘉靖刻本

續字彙補,和刻本

字彙補,彙賢齋本
Xieyang WANG
Individual
2024-03-20 03:43:29 UTC
Evidence
NEW_EVIDENCE
WS2021 v6.0
[ Resolved ]

新修絫音引證群籍玉篇(中華再造善本影印金刊本)卷25 folio 5b

It quotes 龍龕手鑑. The 龍龕手鑑(臺北故宮藏宋刊本)gives the shape 𧍂, which was then inherited by 四聲篇海 and many other dictionaries.



In the 三國志 evidences 「東行至⿰虫肴」, ⿰虫肴 is a place name, likely a corrupted form of 崤.

Given that ⿰虫肴 is the desired form, it is a bit unfortunate that the Kangxi dict editors does not normalize it to ⿰虫肴. Since it is too late to change the representative glyph of 𧍂, I suggest coding it separately.
HUANG Junliang
Individual
2024-03-20 19:44:45 UTC
Data for Unihan
SEMANTIC_VARIANT
WS2021 v6.0
𧍂 (U+27342)
HUANG Junliang
Individual
2024-03-20 19:45:12 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
To add to Kushim's comment in #15443, here are the variants from MOE Dictionary:




Suggest China to update the glyph of 𧍂 (U+27342) to ⿰虫肴, unify GKJ-00436 to 𧍂 (U+27342).
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 04:02:07 UTC
Unification
NO_UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
As #15445/#15452 mentioned, ⿰虫肴 and ⿰虫⿱又有 are surely the variants, both of them are stablly used in dictionaries, that means both of them are valuable in historical usage process. So we don't need to unify the 正字 to the variant form while the variant one has been encoded in the previous, and should encode them separatly.
TAO Yang
China
2024-03-21 07:07:16 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
U+27342
Even if the various forms of 𧍂 (U+27342) are stably used in dictionaries, the fact that there were historically two forms considered more or less canonical does not mean we need to disunify them.

First and foremost these are different canonical shapes in different dictionaries, and there is no contrast in shapes in the same dictionary.

Second there is also no contrast in meaning in the same running text.

There are variants without a doubt and the abstract shape is the same which is more than sufficient for unification.

If some digitization projects wish to display one canonical form over the other, that is solely within the realm of Ideographic Variation Sequences. ISO 10646 is a character standard, not a glyph standard.
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 13:36:49 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
In previous IRG meetings, we already have historical precedence of unification to an existing Extension B character, then subsequently updating the Extension B character to take the canonical shape. Some of these characters even involved the GHZ single sourced characters, as-is this case. IRG should be consistent in its handling of these cases.
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 13:41:43 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]


We must also take into account that different dictionaries in different ages have different standard for what is considered "canonical". We cannot simply encode another variant as a different character because some dictionaries at some historical period considered another form as canonical. Otherwise, all the characters containing "歩" instead of "步" need to be disunified as "歩" is considered the canonical form historically in Tang dynasty while "步" is considered the canonical form in China in modern day.
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 14:00:35 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
Another case in WS2021 where we have unified the canonical shape to the non-canonical shape found in some authoritative dictionaries:

Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 14:13:04 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
Another case in WS2017, which involves a taboo character, however it was not found as a head character.

Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 14:19:18 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 14:33:04 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Unresolved ]
Henry CHAN
Individual
2024-03-21 14:35:01 UTC
Unification
UNIFICATION
WS2021 v6.0
[ Resolved ]
U+27342
Thank you Henry for bringing out precedence cases. If ⿰虫肴 is to be unified with 𧍂 (U+27342), I suggest China change the glyph of U+27342 𧍂 to be ⿰虫肴 and the source reference to be GKJ-00436.

The previous shape can be registered as an IVD.
HUANG Junliang
Individual
2024-03-21 19:45:18 UTC

Meeting Minutes

DateDescription
IRG #62
2024-03-20 (Wed)
11:33 am +0800
Recorded by CHEN Zhuang
pending for 𧍂 (U+27342) in irg62.
IRG #62
2024-03-22 (Fri)
10:07 am +0800
Recorded by CHEN Zhuang
withdrawn, for unification discussion of 𧍂 U+27342, new ucv of 肴 needs further study.

Attribute Changes

VersionDescription
7.0
For 03560, change Status to Withdrawn
7.0
For 03560, add Discussion Record "Withdrawn, unification to 𧍂 U+27342 to be discussed, new UCV rule to be discussed, IRG 62."

Glyph Changes

Source ReferenceGlyph
GKJ-00436
1.0

Raw Info
groupChina (GKJ - Science and Technology Characters)
a) Source referenceGKJ-00436
b) PUA Code of TTFE0DF
c) KangXi Radical Code(Primary)142.0
d) Stroke Count(Primary)8
e) First Stroke(Primary)3
g) Total Stroke Count14
i) IDS (Ideographic Description Sequence)⿰虫肴
j) Similar/ Variants N/A
k) Ref. to Evidence doc龍龕手鏡 龍龕手鑑 精刻海若湯先生校訂音釋五侯鯖字海 陳明卿太史考古詳訂遵韻海篇朝宗 三國志 三国志 汉字海 中华字海